Barack Backtracks on Saddleback
September 7th, 2008 by sepierce and tagged Abortion, Add new tag, Born Alive, Obama, SaddlebackBarack Obama’s gutless evasion of the question regarding when a baby receives human rights is now infamous. The “above my pay grade” cop out has apparently hurt the anointed candidate among we, the little people. What does Barack “Born Alive, Let Them Die” Obama do when his words or his associations begin to harm his campaign? He backtracks. The man whose pastor of twenty-plus years was not the pastor he knew has now taken a similar approach to his Saddleback side-step.
From Politico via Yahoo News, “Obama considered joining military, regrets abortion answer.”
During separate televised interviews last month, Pastor Rick Warren asked the two presidential candidates when a baby gets human rights. Obama replied that the question is “above my pay grade,” while Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) won love from the right by saying quickly, “At the moment of conception.”
Now, Obama tells ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in an interview taped for “This Week”: “What I intended to say is that, as a Christian, I have a lot of humility about understanding when does the soul enter into … It’s a pretty tough question. And so, all I meant to communicate was that I don’t presume to be able to answer these kinds of theological questions.”
In the ABC interview, Obama goes on to give the answer he wishes he’d given: “What I do know is that abortion is a moral issue, that it’s one that families struggle with all the time. And that in wrestling with those issues, I don’t think that the government criminalizing the choices that families make is the best answer for reducing abortions.
“I think the better answer — and this was reflected in the Democratic platform — is to figure out, how do we make sure the young mothers, or women who have a pregnancy that’s unexpected or difficult, have the kind of support they need to make a whole range of choices, including adoption and keeping the child.
Apparently it takes a few weeks after an event to iron out (undoubtedly with the help of PR people) exactly what the supposedly eloquent professional candidate actually “intended” to say. I wonder if, “as a Christian” Illinois State Senator Barack Obama wasn’t quite sure if the living, breathing baby that had just survived an abortion attempt had received his or her soul. I suppose the “humility about understanding” led to his despicable stance in blocking The Born Alive Infant Protection Act in 2002.
S.B. 1663 would require:
22 (2) (a) No abortion shall be performed or induced when 23 the fetus is viable unless there is in attendance a physician 24 other than the physician performing or inducing the abortion 25 who shall take control of and provide immediate medical care 26 for any child born alive as a result of the abortion. No 27 abortion procedure which, in the medical judgment of the 28 attending physician, has a reasonable likelihood of resulting 29 in a live born child shall be undertaken unless there is in 30 attendance a physician other than the physician performing or 31 inducing the abortion who shall assess the child’s viability -2- LRB9215509RCsb 1 and provide medical care for the child.
The man that would six years later give the infamous “above my pay grade” response at Saddleback stood against protecting the infants that survived abortion. The transcript of the 82nd Legislative Day of The State of Illinois 92nd General Assembly (pp 31-35) shows for whose interest the future agent of “hope” and “change” fought! Here is an example of “The One’s” statements from that dark day:
“As I understand it, this puts the burden on the attending physician who has determined, since they were performing this procedure, that, in fact, this is a nonviable fetus; that if that fetus, or child - however way you want to describe it - is now outside the mother’s womb and the doctor continues to think that it’s nonviable but there’s, let’s say, movement or some indication that in fact, they’re not just coming out limp and dead, that, in fact, they would then have to call a second physician to monitor and check off and make sure that this is not a live child that could be saved. Is that correct?”
On page 33, B.O. fertilizes the floor of the state senate with his assurances that doctors would already feel obligated to save a child in these situations and he makes it a point to state:
“but I think it’s important to understand that this issue is about abortion and not live births. Because if these are children who are being born alive, I, at least have confidence that a doctor who is in that room is going to make sure that they’re looked after.”
If Jill Stanek’s recollection of babies being left today in soiled linen closets are accurate, then Barack’s trademark “judgment,” a thing his campaign touts, has once again proven to be very poor.
Posted in Illinois Libiots, Libiot Candidates, Libiots On Abortion |
September 7th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Faultline USA’s last blog post..Obama’s Marxist Boot Camps
September 7th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
[...] Original sepierce [...]
September 8th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
I’ll link to this from my bench memos post!
tieki rae’s last blog post..Obama, the Moral Midget
September 8th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
[...] Sam, over at Malignant Liberal Idiocy, has a detailed post about how “Barack Backtracks on Saddleback“. Definitely worth the read. Sphere: Related [...]
September 23rd, 2008 at 3:26 am
September 23rd, 2008 at 3:41 am
September 23rd, 2008 at 11:50 am
I didn’t realize that I was for “borrow and spend,” you are indeed perceptive! Oh guru of the leap, I was going to suggest you get together with KraZy, one of my favorite psychotic commenters, but since I have seen that you share an IP address, I don’t need to make that recommendation.
Do you actually believe the crap that flows from your fingertips? I stopped listing to Limbaugh long ago and am thoroughly disgusted by today’s Republican Party. The key here is that McCain is not Obama and Palin has promise, take it or leave it.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:07 am
No for the few words you devoted to issues not personalities. Borrow and spend is the Bush and McCain economic policy. Look at the China debt, that is hard to dispute.
I like the interchange here, and I’m getting the impression that there is more to you than the conflicted ramblings from the back of the church bulletins that you read. There does seem to be hope for you. I hope this hope can be extended to the rest of the far right as we enter the election weeks ahead.
McCain and Palin won’t talk to reporters or debate the issues. We can hope that people understand what that is. Fear and lack of substance. I would really like to vote for someone who knows something about economics. Given that that is not one of the options I will vote for someone smart enough to recognize that the economy is not “fundamentally sound”. You can not fix a problem that you have no grasp of, and the McCains have no grasp of money problems. Their idea of an economic disaster is forgetting their wallet at home.
Jack Welsh would get my vote. Do you know who he is? I worked for him and met him several times over the 14 years at GE. Warren Buffet would too. They know what is needed; and neither is for Mccain.
Okay back to the rhetoric you like to spew, Kari is a really industrious women, and politics aside, you would be terrified at the shear force of her personality and charmed by her wit and spontaneity. I was, that is why I married her.
Having been raised myself by a Christian man and woman where he was strong with silent and enduring faith and she was strong in her sense of justice and responsibility; I had a very different exposure to women than you apparently had. My sister before she died was a Protestant minister and feminist. Given my upbringing and examples of a strong woman and her convictions, I find kari easy to relate to and Palin looks like a mascot that they will not let talk and treat like an old man with traditional views would; look good and keep you mouth shut. I can not for the life of me understand what you see in this women when a month ago yo all would have condemned her for not being at home with her kids and for having a pregnant child.
That all aside I think we are missing the point again, what the hell are we going to do about the economic problem created by deregulation. Thank god Bush didn’t get to privatize social security or we would really be screwed.
I’m glad you have disdain for today’s republican party, and yes rush was wrong.
Let’s start another war and let’s deregulate (privatize) the military. Let’s deport all the poor with the illegal aliens and make a nation of people who we agree wit and that make more than 200k per year. Let’s quit dumping money into national infrastructure and all of us who make more than 500K per year should move to a separate gated area and screw the rest. Let’s take you policies to the limit. Oh… maybe you wouldn’t qualify? Should we lower the entry level?
There are only 11 people in the world supposedly able to understand the complexity of the problem we face. McCain and Obama are not on the list so maybe they should be quiet and stay out of the way as those with the balls forget politics and hammer out a solution. Or we could cancel the debates, the election and declare a national emergency. That way we could suspend the election and keep this magician who crated a broke country from the financial wonder of the world in a short 7 years.
Maybe its time that we start agreeing on some fundamental things that might save our countries position it the world. Maybe its time we stop railing on issues that separate us, but will ultimately be irrelevant if the country fails. Maybe its time to start acting like concerned citizens instead of foaming at the mouth prophets of doom if we don’t abolish the federal government. The course we are on will assure no big government, in fact it will assure a federal government that is irrelevant in the world.
Maybe you should think about how to use your free time to do something constructive and capable of bringing the country together.
September 25th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Just because Palin is not being utilized by the moronic campaign does not mean she doesn’t have promise. Your assessment of what people like me thought a month ago goes a long way to discredit your opinion. I have been wishing (without much hope) for months that McCain would at least pick a decent running mate and Palin was indeed in my top three choices. I see no reason for her to cater to Obama’s extended campaign staff, or as you might call them, the press.
I thought the name was Welch, but yes I do know who he is. Sorry I don’t have many names to drop, but I have met Duncan Hunter (my choice for president.)
Now back to the idiocy you sometimes spew, and this excerpt is really stupid:
“That all aside I think we are missing the point again, what the hell are we going to do about the economic problem created by deregulation. Thank god Bush didn’t get to privatize social security or we would really be screwed.”
This tells me you are trying to be funny or that you might as well be an Obama campaign volunteer. Deregulation has not caused the problem! Government mandates to give loans to people that aren’t likely to pay them back are bad regulations (not deregulation.) It is funny how your candidate’s (you’ve tipped your hand as an Obamoron) associates made all that money at Fannie Mae, and you think deregulation is the problem. The idea that you think the jackasses in government should run everything including Social Security, is completely idiotic. It is too bad that Social Security wasn’t privatized and that the oppressive government you love hasn’t gotten the Hell out of the way and allowed the economy to function. It is a shame that you detest free markets, as you have admitted with your deregulation idiocy.
We will not agree because the last half of your entry illustrates your desire for socialism, despite your apparent (real or imaginary) success, which indicates that you fit in well with the wealthy Obammunists that enjoy their wealth and now want to control the rest of the population such that it is more difficult for them to attain that type of wealth. You sick bastards desire a class of proles, dependent on you “elitist” fools.
No, Rogmoron, I don’t want to bring our country together if it in any way means the furthering of your Obammunistic ideals!
September 27th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
[...] Comments sepierce on Barack Backtracks on Saddlebacksepierce on Biden Joins “Team Articulate And Bright And Clean”Susan on Biden Joins [...]
October 1st, 2008 at 3:35 am
Kari doesn’t need my help, sp I won’t get in between you and her in your mutual disdain. I did have hope for you and although I realize that a Peoria HS grad is at an immediate disadvantage, I give some slack. I think you are clever enough o recognize that my accomplishments are real. They are creative. That means I create things that bring life to a capitalist society. So different than the purely service (maintenance sector) like plant engineering services, though most of my friends and people I do respect serve as well.
We need to discuss your cursory understanding of the situation we find ourselves in today. My contribution here for the most part is just reprinting the recent statements of the people we have put in charge of our financial systems and reiterating the legislative actions that are behind this failure of the banking system. The point of doing this is not to try to affix the blame from a historical prospective going back to the Great Depression, but to look at who is currently (and going forward) more tied to the recent policy changes that have caused this failure. Let me give you a lesson in economic hasty from a moron’s prospective (which is definitely an upgrade from whatever perspective you mindlessly enjoy today.
As with the S&L crisis of the early 80’s and the Enron/Tyco crisis of the late 90’s, this crisis is a direct result of corporations and industry’s push for less regulation driven mostly by the campaign funding supplied by industry lobbyists. This particular crisis had its genesis in 1999 in a republican sponsored bill signed by a democrat President (Clinton). This evolved into other deregulation actions taken in 2004 when the five big investment banks including Goldman Sachs (headed by Henry Paulson Jr.) were lobbying for self oversight (“consolidated supervised entities”) and in 2005 and 2006 when John McCain’s campaign manager, Phil Gramm, was lobbying extensively for the banking industry. Paulson is now the current administration’s Secretary of the Treasury, and Gramm is McCain’s main economic advisor and reportedly his choice for Treasury Secretary. The result of all this so far is the near collapse of the US banking and credit industry, the global stock market collapse and the Bush administration’s begging congress to pass Paulson’s bailout plan cooked up to stop the pain.
Anyone who still thinks that the heads of giant corporations and entire industries can be trusted to be honest and self-monitored on a voluntary basis should look closely at the confessions and facts surrounding this failure. To understand it fully we only need to look back to 1999.
The link below is a summary of the bank deregulation bill also known at the “Gramm Leach Bliley Act” drafted by republicans in congress and signed into effect by then President Clinton in 1999.
http://library.findlaw.com/2000/Oct/1/128177.html
If the name Gramm sounds familiar it is because former Sen. Phil Gramm (R-Texas) was the general co-chairman of McCain’s campaign. He was also one of the chief lobbyists for the banking industry fighting against banking regulation and collected in one case $750,000 peddling his influence over former senate friends from Swiss banking giant UBS.
Following is a couple of highlights from “The Politico”, supposedly a bipartisan newsgroup whose reporters mostly came from the WSJ. They sponsored the 2008 Republican President Debate. Politico’s CEO is a former assistant to then President Regan, Frederick J. Ryan Jr., also chairman of the board for the Regan Presidential library:
“Gramm lobbied Congress, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department about banking and mortgage issues in 2005 and 2006.
During those years, the mortgage industry pressed Congress to roll back strong state rules that sought to stem the rise of predatory tactics used by lenders and brokers to place homeowners in high-cost mortgages.”
“Gramm is often a surrogate for the Arizona senator, particularly in meetings focused on the economy. And McCain has hinted he’d consider the former Texas senator for Treasury secretary in a McCain administration.
McCain delivered an economic speech Tuesday that had Gramm’s input, but it was written by domestic policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin.
from McCain’s campaign comes:
“Sen. Gramm was one of dozens of folks whom Sen. McCain has consulted on the housing issue, including Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman from eBay,” said McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers. “They’ve been friends for years, and he values Sen. Gramm’s advice.”
By the way, Carly Fiorina in case you don’t recognize the name is the former head of HP that was fired by the board of directors for nearly causing the company to melt down as a result of a number of risky acquisitions including DEC/Data General. She can’t get a real job after that, so she has moved into politics.
Although as of this week he no longer says “the US economy is fundamentally sound” McCain clearly is tied through his record and associations to the deregulation of the banking industry that is at the heart of the lending practices of the last several years. These deregulation policies have come to fruition and now they (the authors) all did a quick about face and are talking “increased oversight”. I’m not lying, you can’t even make this stuff up!
The following according to the S.E.C. chairman Cox, whom McCain now wants to blame it all on and fire:
“(Cox)acknowledged on Friday that failures in a voluntary supervision program for Wall Street’s largest investment banks had contributed to the global financial crisis, and he abruptly shut the program down.”
He went on to say “The last six months have made it abundantly clear that voluntary regulation does not work,” he said in a statement. The program “was fundamentally flawed from the beginning, because investment banks could opt in or out of supervision voluntarily.
Mr. Cox and other regulators, including Ben S. Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman, and Henry M. Paulson Jr., the Treasury secretary, have acknowledged general regulatory failures over the last year.
The program Mr. Cox abolished was unanimously approved in 2004 by the commission under his predecessor, William H. Donaldson. Known by the clumsy title of “consolidated supervised entities,” the program allowed the S.E.C. to monitor the parent companies of major Wall Street firms, even though technically the agency had authority over only the firms’ brokerage firm components.
The commission created the program after heavy lobbying for the plan from all five big investment banks. At the time, Mr. Paulson was the head of Goldman Sachs. He left two years later to become the Treasury secretary and has been the architect of the administration’s bailout plan.
Facing the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, Mr. Cox has begun in recent weeks to call for greater government involvement in the markets.
Right out of the culprit’s mouths; lack of oversight is the cause of the failure of the Nations banking industry. I usually refrain from battling wits with the unarmed, but in this case I make and exception because I see the seeds of intelligence even if you are ignorant.
It really boils down to greed.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:48 am
October 1st, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Thank you for your babble, I will take the parts I read under advisement. You are saying that Barney “Gay Brothel” Fwank was right to defend Fannie Mae in 2005 when the warning was sounded.
October 1st, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Now these same opportunists try to make us believe that they had nothing to do with deregulation as they align with their buddy McCain looking for their next train to rob.
Just for you I will look into B Frank and Freddie and Fannie at a deeper level and get back to you (Kari is a mortgage broker so she has a lot of historical information on them), but don’t forget in 2005 the House, the Senate, and the Executive office were all under republican control. If they recognized a problem and did nothing then they obviously are to blame.
October 1st, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Asked what other Supreme Court decisions they disagree with the running mates said:
Palin
“Well, let’s see. There’s, of course, in the great history of America rulings there have been rulings, that’s never going to be absolute consensus by every American,” Palin said. “And there are, those issues, again, like Roe v. Wade where I believe are best held on a state level and addressed there. So you know, going through the history of America, there would be others but ….” “Well, I could think of, of any again, that could be best dealt with on a more local level. Maybe I would take issue with. But you know, as mayor, and then as governor and even as a vice president, if I’m so privileged to serve, wouldn’t be in a position of changing those things but in supporting the law of the land as it reads today.”
Biden
…the decision that struck down a law giving abused women the right to sue their tormentors in federal court. Biden, a senator from Delaware, wrote the law.
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
Biden is a genius, afterall he knew that FDR got on the television in 1929 to explain the stock market crash… oh wait he wasn’t the president then… but at least there were telivisions in most American homes at that point… oh wait, I guess you’ll have to put your crack research skills to work and show me how Biden’s ridiculous babbling is a fiment of talk-radio’s imagination.
I get the feeling that if we were discussing nuclear power, “Kari” would have become a former captain of a nuclear submarine.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Kari is of course no longer in the mortgage industry because thanks to your buddies, the deregulators and lobbyists there is no mortgage business. She has been in nursing school for the last two years, but she will not be serving you unfortunately for you she is going to work at the VA while continuing her work for her BS in nursing. The funny thing is that someone like can not believe that there are really very successful people out there. Yet you keep prescribing more polices that benefit us, not you. The old definition of insanity comes to mind “keep doing what your doing and hope for different results”. There is greed and then there is earning. We have earned, not the “Moochers” Aynn Rand speaks of.
So did you hear that Warren Buffet endorsed Obama? He studied his economic plan and said it is sound. He unfortunately couldn’t study McPalin’s because there isn’t one. Combined that with the information I gave you about what the Bush Treasury Secretary (Paulson) and McCain’s primary economic advisor (Gramm) did that admittedly caused this current disaster, what did you call their own words?, oh yeah “babble”. I guess I can now make a definitive move into a candidates camp. Polls now indicate that many people are making the same decisions and this election might be a runaway. Unless Bush and his other brother McBush can create a new world security crisis to shift things and scatter the mice to the other end of the ship, I think we will see what the other side can do going forward. This might be good for you, instead of trying to defend your President, you can shift to attacking your President. A change of scenery, and hopefully those auto sector plants you serve will recover enough so you won’t loose your job and maybe can keep your health insurance too. If not, hopefully the healthcare insurance issues that all your friends that have proceeded you to unemployment during this administration have run into will be lessoned for you and your beautiful family. I see plenty of pictures of your kids posted, where’s your wife? Did she get fed up and leave?
The funny thing is all the mice are now calling for reregulation. Even the rats that stole all the gain from the middle class and have stuffed their checks full.
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
My wife is still with me, and unlike Kari, I don’t have to inflate her. I knew Warren Buffet had endorsed “Big Brother” Barry, am I supposed to be shocked that their are wealthy liberals?
Why do you despise the free market? What drives your hatred of capitalism? Do you believe that life is better in Cuba, Venzuala, or the former Soviet Union than it is in The United States of America? Why does it offend you to think of a nation where individuals have liberty and freedom… to succeed or fail according to his or her actions, skills, talents? Why do you want to take from one to give to another?
As for the VA, I am eligible to receive services there and considered working there, myself when I was in nursing school, which I did not complete. That was a long time ago and after working as a CNA in a hospital for 3 1/2 years during your favorite president’s first administration, I decided that nursing was not the way to go. But I do appreciate your concern and your hope for my sake that we get the opportunity to be put on waiting lists for sub-par government provided healthcare generously bestowed upon us by “Big Brother.”
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Every thing I have said about Kari and myself is the God’s honest truth. Because you can’t relate to my level of success or hers in your world you assume otherwise. You are way too interested in my wife though and that made me wonder about yours. Especially your rant about her interest in you. She lost interest in this long ago. Bettcha your disappointed (wink wink)
You’re BS about capitalism and my take on it is complete nonsense and obviously you can’t follow along.
Sometimes groups of people need laws. Even groups of people that call themselves corporations. Where would we be without any laws, the anarchy of lawless areas in Pakistan is a good example. What about industries and corporations within a world without regulations. We’d be here in this mess. The biggest examples of living breathing capitalism are with me on this buddy. Now weknow how much is too much and they are all talking REregulation.
You want to get into liberty, or the constitution I can certainly go there with you. Your understanding of Marxisum is that it is a word that the Talk Right uses, so you and the parrot Palin hear it, you learn it, you mouth it.
Calling me names and disagreeing with all the economists and the very people who admit what they did was wrong is not going to get your guy elected. Learn to put your mind to work and pay attention to the dialog. It would be much more effective than repeating the same old stuff.
Hey, at least we agree about Bush, I suspect the difference is I said it from the beginning of his administration and recognized the crap he, Cheney, Rummy and Wolfowitz were doing from 6 moths in. In a few years we may find common ground on today’s issues too.
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:32 pm
There is no way my guy can get elected, moron, as the choice is between John McCain and “Big Brother” Barack “Born Alive, Let Them Die” Obama, neither of which are my guy. Also, momo, I said nothing about being a lawless nation, you must read my entries in the same fashion I read yours (quick skimming.)
I am a simple man and can not see the benefit of INCREASING government control. Again, I apologize for wanting my children to grow up in a free nation and have opportunities to succeed. Even in my simple little life I have seen the barriers to productivity you seem to admire and have seen their negative impacts (examples ridiculous record-keeping for the sole reason of compliance with some overbearing regulation or possible regulation related to Sarbanes-Oxley and of course while with my previous employer, the unbelievable burden of union labor.)
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:39 pm
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:03 pm
October 4th, 2008 at 1:35 am
Interestingly my whole career has been mostly concentrated on productivity aspects, doing more with less people, and now in the middle of my life I am not so sure that that has been beneficial.
You’re right it is your blog, but that doesn’t change MY opinion or my right to change my opinion. Only your right to publish it or not. The march of productivity and downsizing has gone too far, yet that is my field. I guarantee I can make things in your plants more efficient and eliminate downtime and unneeded processes (and people), but Sam although this might be good for your company and the US GNP, this could also mean your job. I can explain further in another post if you are interested.
Sam, the rule of law is important in civil and government matters. What you need to understand is that the corporate environment in the real world brings out the worst in people. All the same things that we need to protect society from in the case of the self possessed criminal willing to murder for the till of a Circle-K cash register exist in much of the white collar world. The instinct to get ahead at the other guys expense (f-um) is amplified in the corporate executives meetings.
Now you might say does that mean we should treat all people or corporations like criminals(?); no but we should have laws to protect those who would be their victims if allowed to be the playground bullies unchecked.
The thing you haven’t realized is that corporations are the same as people; only the worst aspects of human nature are amplified in the top posts within a company where all the people around the CEO espouse their agreement with the CEO’s force of personality and are intimidated by the clear power over their lives. They even may start to think that it is right. This isn’t always apparent at the “joe Six Pack” level.
I remember the first time I was inside that room. It was a meeting where the names of all the management and most significant salaried positions were on the white board and the COO went through the list with a marker and got the opinions of the people in the room on the value of these names. He crossed out the ones that this small group disliked. There were only about 10 of us in this meeting, the poepl that he trusted. The language was “keep or kill”. What an eye opener for a new executive. The fate of all these people depended on whether the people in that room liked them or not.
It got much worse the further I went up, but I resisted the sociopathic nature of these kinds of meetings and always defended my people. Many times it got me in trouble, but they (the EVP’s, COO’s, CEO’s and CFO’s) needed me, I was the rainmaker. The worst imagination you have about what happens behind those doors is probably not even close to the harsh reality of the truth. Bend, twist and screw all the regulations and laws if we can do it and not get exposed it’s fine; the small inside circle of lets get rich and screw them rules in those rooms and the CFO and the Legal people are thare to make sure every opening in the laws are exploited.
Does that mean I have soured on the idea of capitalism and pay for what you are worth? Hell no. What it means is that we need to make sure there is a lock on the cookie jar and a security camera over it.
You can not let corporate mentality rule, or you end up here. Capitalism can thrive in a game with rules. Monopoly has rules. When you allow companies to act without transparency, boundaries, and accountability you get screwed. Everyone has a boss, but without regulations forget about ethics. The same thing that makes communism and fascism and theocracy so dangerous can exist within capitalism; without the rule of law.
I have been behind those doors in GE, Toshiba, KLAT, Seimens and Philips. In some of the biggest companies in the world I have seen what’s under the Kimono and the only thing that keeps things on track is the rules and they will push and bend every one even then.
Believe me; you don’t want to live in a world where they get to make up the rules as they go. The world of Enron, of Lincoln Savings, the world of WaMu. If you leave a jar of cookies in the middle of the floor and forget to warn all the children in the room not to touch the cookies; when you come back and the cookies are gone who do you blame?
Only the one naive Christian kid in the room will go without a cookie, and the biggest bully will have eaten the most. Guess who is the fall guy?
October 4th, 2008 at 1:43 am
October 4th, 2008 at 5:38 am
Regarding the other thread I couldn’t help posting on, You should try engaging people without so much venom out of the box. You could get better dialog and more interesting threads (providing you keep the history of the thread in mind as you post) Threads shouldn’t go dead so fast. At your best you have an interesting style. It’s the delivery (the disagreement) that you fall apart on. Engage the dissenting point of view. An agreement is a quick death to the thread and makes for a boring site.
For what it’s worth.
October 4th, 2008 at 6:52 am
It is my responsibility to increase efficiency and downtime as well… by researching, creating specs for, and purchasing (or having built) new assembly equipment (or refurbished assembly equipment with modifications,) not to maintain existing equipment. You see, the equipment must change with the product cycle, as automotive headlamps and tail lights change with model changes.
Your opinion seems to be “I’ve created my wealth and comfortable life… now I think its time for government to level the playing field to ensure equal outcomes, not opportunity, for those who haven’t. I can afford to pay more for everything as efficiency cannot be improved (in keeping with Karl Marx) for the sake of the proles maintaining their current positions.”
I will agree that there should be reasonable laws and regulations, however I believe that productivity should not be artificially sacrificed for forced social purposes.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:14 am
Don’t I know it. I spent 5 years in another industry other than medical equipment as a VP of Technology. The semiconductor industry to be specific and I worked on the chip making equipment side. You want to see change! That is where 6 months is a long life cycle.
I was and am still now brought in to a company whether as a consultant to use technology to create breakthroughs in service delivery fot capital equipment. In the earlier days of my career ti was more about assuring that the equipment was producing the best quality results consistently to reduce the diagnostic inaccuracies in patient care. It was a good thing. It also had the effect of greatly decreasing the number of engineers required to maintain equipment. I mean drastic reductions. Over a few years after introducing the automated testing new methods and introducing remote and even automated systems for interpreting the testing results the contract margins increased from 15-20 percent to 80 percent. Hundreds of people were displaced and the contract pricing was not reduced, it was even increased. Great business! These new methods were proprietary, so if the customer tried to self serve or find and alternate provider, the old manual methods were the only thing made available.
Then another multinational hired me to do this and I did, with similar results. I would integrate technology when it existed, design and spec global systems, and invent when it was something new. That is where most of my patents came from.
I started writing for magazines and journals and became highly sought after in the industry. I worked my way to the Director level and then eventually I stated a company, and then another where we became the modern equivalent of the old “efficiency experts” only using technology. I analyze processes, evaluate the support technology used, the existing applications and infrastructure and the entire service delivery system. That lead to benchmarking, Gap analysis and then the gap closure and the development and transition plan. These were all multinationals.
At that point a company’s founder, again a multinational brought me in at the VP level with absolute backing from the top people, probably my biggest success both career wise and monetarily.
Over the years I had access to all the strategic planning and even made recommendations regarding staffing and personnel. I guess I am responsible for hundreds of thousands of job losses indirectly or directly.
Then some things happened in my personal life that made me consider the real impact I had had. Today I wonder if all this productivity and the march to eliminate the American worker has been good for the country.
My initial desire to make the equipment used in diagnosing illnesses better was the result of the death of a young son. But the catastrophic ongoing illness of my surviving son in his late twenties and watching him loose his sight, then his insurance, being denied for government help so he could save try to his eye sight while being told he would qualify if he were an illegal alien has greatly impacted my thinking. Yes I should be set, “have mine” but we refinanced his home to pull out money so his surgeries could continue. The market there dropped and he didn’t get better, couldn’t go back to work. The neighborhood the beautiful house was in had a 40 percent vacancy rate do to foreclosures and after trying to rent it for a year, we let it go. I went through my savings, took out personal loans and tapped my IRA.
Let me warn you with 5 young daughters and weddings and collage coming up you have a lot in front of you. But if one of them gets seriously ill as an adult, looses their ability to work, is rejected by the insurance companies and then has to spend years fighting for the Medicare that he paid into and I certainly have, while the situation demands there is no time to wait for the surgeries needed to save what we can of his vision, you will spend everything. Think about 200K to 300K gone, can you afford it?
Meanwhile we are spending trillions to make a democracy in a country within a region where no-one will ever know peace, and rebuilding their infrastructure while destroying our economy. Well what else can I say. You don’t think it can happen to you until it does. And it does every day.
Advanced medical and preventative medical care for people who can’t afford it costs all of us, not just as individuals, far more than if we took care of peoples health issues before they became out of control.
If the government should be doing anything to help us compete in the world and increase our productivity, it would be spending on healthcare and education. I’m sure you know how much of the cost of making a vehicle in the US is attributed to health insurance and lost time during illnesses. One of the big reasons our products suffer in quality is because we need to cheapen the vehicle to compete in the world market, where they don’t pay these costs. You can get a better car or truck that is foreign made for the same money, there is no doubt about it.
You being in the auto industry should be painfully aware of this. What could be more important that the education and health of our nation. If you want to find the quickest path to irrelevancy in the world, ignore these issues, then see how long we can afford the massive military spending we have today.
Roger
October 6th, 2008 at 5:32 am
October 7th, 2008 at 3:09 am
I hope I didn’t come off too strong and kill your interest in this discussion. I have been enjoying it immensely. Real life experiences often leave people speechless.
I know that was a lot to digest. It gets more complex the deeper we go. I hope you haven’t lost interest though. We’re getting personal, at least I am and some people find that difficult. Don’t let me down here, I’m hoping to find some kind of mutual understanding that we can take forward, each in our own march for a better tomorrow.
The “experience” of an old(er) successful capitalist who has been taught a few life lessons along the way, and the the exuberant young idealist (like the younger me) that still idealistically hangs on to the influence of people who have no interest in our well being is much like the internal battle I have.
I actually hope you can restore my faith in the “me” generations rhetoric. I’m hoping I am a one-off anomaly of the faithful, and I will wake up to a new bull market and “go for it” environment.
If not maybe we can explore what kind of government can forget ideals, and agree on a new form of capitalism that will not fail in the way all the past theories of the left and right have. If there is a hope for the US in terms of world leadership, it would be this kind of future.
Otherwise we (the US us) will be left behind as an interesting place for the new controlling empire (China?, India?, EC?, Russia?) to visit and see where the last great empire was. I recently went to Rome and was amazed by all the magnificent relics of a past empire.
Hope we will not soon be one of those tourist destinations to study history. We need to get our shi_t together as a nation. Reality is not your father’s world view anymore.
Roger
October 7th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Your personal tragedies are indeed tragic, and I am truly sorry for the suffering of your family and your attempts in coping with it. This is not intended to be offensive, but it seems you are displaying a symptom of a “me” generation. It seems that you believe the government should spread your misery among the remainder of the population. How do you propose medical costs be controlled by government? Barack Obama is claiming that he will lower cost without sacrificing quality, which anyone can see will not be allowed in the world of parasitic malpractice attorneys. Ever hear of John Edwards and his 28,000 square foot home?
How will our education system be improved by pumping more money to the coffers of the “condom on a banana, celebrate artificial diversity, any lifestyle is normal unless it is Christian” so-called educators? The focus of the modern school has the reverse affect of one that would strengthen this nation.
Our manufacturing businesses don’t need further regulation. They don’t need further government imposed harm. The regulations you seem to adore have driven jobs out of this country! Ridiculous regulation creates jobs… how? Common sense laws are necessary, what we have today is oppressive. What we will have in andObamanation will be catastrophic!
October 8th, 2008 at 1:32 am
I appretiate you conceern, but I am capable of taking care of myself.
The “Me” generation is exactly the opposite of what I am talking about. The “me” is the Reagan era which I endorsed and plunged into wholly.
You are talking to someone who has taken capitalism and productivity to the extreme and now has some questions about my contribution to the state of affairs in this country.
I think that responsibility for our actions is indisputable for any kind of moral platform. I am just being honest. It seems that we have built our own coffin. You speak about our “manufacturing businesses” and at that level the “Joe Six Pack” life and efforts are indeed nobel. I respect the people who do the work. I was talking about the people who own and run the manufacturing business. I am talking about what goes on behind those doors that you don’t get to see. Call me a “whistle blower”. You guys are the troops. You march where you are told to march and you are indeed not the problem.
Don’t be so naive as to think your company cares as much about you as you care about your company.
Basic rules of engagement are needed in the corporate world. I know. You respond to what you want, but not to my central theme. The whole idea of deregulation has gone too far and the lack of a social conscious in recent years has made us less competitive.
Here is what I want your insight on. This is what I want you to explain to me.
How can we compete when we bake in the exorbitant costs of healthcare in our products when the rest of the world does not? Secondly, how do we compete when the rest of the world is educating their young gifted people in the best Universities in the world (ours)? and we don’t even care about basic educational needs of our children?
You avoid the real questions and the dialog at a level that would have meaningful impact on our mutual understanding in favor of GOP rhetoric. I am looking for one person, anyone who wants to put that s_it away and talk about what is really happening.
Roger
October 8th, 2008 at 1:42 am
What has driven jobs out of the country are tax incentives and the cost of manufacturing and software development here, vs. the rest of the world. We should be giving tax breaks to companies who hire people domestically, and imposing tariffs on exporting labor to other countries.
Every time a person is hired in large engineering and manufacturing companies about 10K to 15K is spent on equipping that person. That money spent in this country would jump start manufacturing. Also having another tax payer in place would be positive.
That is how we can balance the books without imposing restrictions on free trade. Call it socialistic if your want, call it protectionist if you want, I call it tit for tat.
Roger
October 8th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
“How can we compete when we bake in the exorbitant costs of healthcare in our products when the rest of the world does not? Secondly, how do we compete when the rest of the world is educating their young gifted people in the best Universities in the world (ours)? and we don’t even care about basic educational needs of our children?”
We can compete by removing other ingredients from the recipe, including some of the healthcare costs (or all for that matter.)Roger, I certainly don’t believe companies should be forced to provide health insurance for their employees, I view it as a fringe benefit to be used to attract the best employees. I believe that we need jobs and our employers need to make a profit. I don’t believe my employer is in business to serve me or any other employee.
I am not an ideallist that believes things will ever be as they should, but her is how I believe it should work. Cut health insurance costs by allowing competition and most importantly putting a stop to the predatory ambulance chasers. I don’t know how many (it was a lot) doctors left the litigation Hell that is Madison County, IL because they could no longer afford the outrageous malpractice insurance premiums. Cut the costs imposed by oppressive environmental, OSHA, and whatever other regulatory/compliance boondoggle is put in place to discourage business. Cut the ridiculous union contract crap (you can’t bullshit me on this one, Roger! I worked for Olin Corporation and I suffered first hand as a salaried employee due to the ridiculous union contract.)
Did you get your basic educational needs met? How about your children? What is wrong with the education my children are receiving, other than the fact that I pay tuition for the homeschool curricula and books in addition to the taxes for public education? What is wrong with getting a college degree the way I did? (Working full time and paying for it until I got a job that offered tuition reimbursement.) Damn it, why take the garbage that has been dumped upon the working people and their employers and make it worse?
If you want to know my position on Free Trade, read the Right Turn section at the following site:
http://www.riverbender.com/politics/index2008_0103.cfm
October 10th, 2008 at 3:08 am
This was actually a thoughtful and concerned post. I hope more of the extremes on the left and right get to the point where they realize there is a crisis and we need to put aside the nonsense and get to work as individuals in forming some kind of consensus irrespective of the politicians to start forward progress.
Wow, that was a mouthful and I hoped to be short and concise on this post. I want to take some time to construct a thoughtful answer and I will, it may take a bit though as I am very busy.
I’ll ignore the comment on the anti union stuff about cutting the crap. I’m sure you got me confused with some other person you are communicating with since I am and always have been against union mentality and as I have repeatedly said I have never wasted a dime on that collective group think mentality.
No need to respond to this post. I will give your whole response consideration and respond in a cohesive way to all your points.
Regards,
Roger